חידת זהוי רכב (תשובה - מיקס לנדרוברים ישנים 101, 129, Judge Dread)

[gp1]

זהו רכב 4X4

[asafk]

טוב, זה קל, ואני חושב שהרכב של השופט היה כאן בעבר..

אסף.

[gp1]

יפה . אבל את ההיסטוריה מה מקור הרכב . מכיר ?

[דרור ברלי]

לנדרובר 101 FORWARD-CONTROL.
הלאה.

[גל מגל]

הופיע בכתבה על מוזיאון ל"ר לפני חודש... פה באתר!

[asafk]

אם כבר לנדרוברים מוזרים- אז מה זה?

אסף.

[tooshey]

לנד רובר סיור בגרסת טנדר.

[asafk]

לנד רובר סיור בגרסת טנדר.

סיור? לא. זה דגם ספציפי, מאוד נדיר. איך קוראים לו?

אסף.

[tooshey]

אני התכוונתי לזה בדגם סיור:
Lightweight(1968-1980): Flat sided with very large wheel arches. The front bumper sports over riders, the rear cross member is rectangular in shape, not being narrow on the ends and angled to a thick Centrex like regular Land Rovers. The wings are sharp edged, and the bonnet is square cornered, unlike the curved edges on regular Land Rovers. The bonnet has a height above the wings of about 8 inches. There is no visible opening for refueling, being under the seat like early Land Rovers. The doors are tapered. If you look carefully you will notice that the firewall/bulkhead is in two pieces with the dividing line flush with the top of the bonnet.

[tooshey]

מצאתי
http://www.lrforum.com/articles/00191/index.htm

בברכה,טושי

[asafk]

סחתיין.
זה ה 129, טנדר על מכללי 101 שקיבל השראה מהטנדרים הצבאיים הגדולים האמריקאיים. לדעתי זה היה יכול להיות אחד הלנדרוברים המוצלחים ביותר, אבל הוא לא הגיע לייצור סדרתי מעבר לכמה אבי טיפוס.

אסף.

[tooshey]

מהמעט שהצלחתי לקרא בנורווגית העילגת שלי מוזכר מנוע רב-דלקי (מולטי-פיול).
יש מצב לתרגום המאמר לשפה שניתן לקרא????

ברכה,טושי

[opl]

http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/Unusual.htm

[gp1]

וזה , מה זה ?

[ofervan]

קצת על ה-129 באנגלית

1962: The 129" Truck Project

There were five prototypes built for military trials for the Belgian Army in the early sixties.
Dunsfold and Gaydon each have a 129" truck prototype.
This design has a 129" wheelbase, 9.00x16 or 11.00x16 tyres, and 2.5 litre 4-cylinder turbo-diesel (with a 5 main bearing crank and a CAV turbo and intercooler, Land Rover's first try at a turbo-diesel engine), or 2.6 litre 6 cylinder petrol.
The 129" has the leaf springs over the axles, and the load capacity is 35cwt.
A four-speed 'crash' (no synchromesh) gearbox with a much larger oil capacity is coupled up to a special remote transfer box with a tyre inflation set up.
Most of the cab section derives from the ordinary Land Rover of the day.

[ofervan]

Translation: Norwegian » English
and Rover 129" ? Det må da være en trykkfeil ? Der skal sikkert stå 109" eller 127". Nei da, det er ingen trykkfeil. Land Rover har faktisk bygget 2 utgaver med 129" akselavstand. Den ene var en modifisert utgave av 127" craw cab, spesialtilpasset for å unngå å bli avgiftsbelagt som personbil i Nederland. Den andre 129" utgaven kom aldri lenger enn til prototypstadiet - og det er disse 6 prototypene vi skal se nærmere på her. På 1950-tallet begynte Land Rover å se på hva som kunne gjøres for å øke lastekapasiteten på bilene. Det mest synlige resultatet var at akselavstanden på standardmodellen ble øket til 86" og at LWB-modellen 107" ble lansert, men dette var ikke nok. Flere konsept for biler med enda større lastekapasitet ble utprøvd og rundt 1960 jobbet Land Rover parallelt med 2 ulike løsninger for å øke lasteevnen. Den ene løsningen var å basere seg på standard 109" ramme og flest mulig av komponentene fra standardmodellen, men øke lastekapasiteten ved å flytte førerhuset frem - over og delvis foran motoren. Dette ble til serie 2A forward control, som er omtalt i en tidligere artikkel. Den andre løsningen var 129" bonneted control. Land Rover 129" Bonneted Control prototyp nr 5 Store Land Rovere - En serieprodusert og en prototyp 110" Series 2B Forward Control og 129" Bonneted Control prototyp nr 5 Inspirasjonen til 129" modellen kom i stor grad fra Dodge Power Wagon, en bil som var mye brukt på et marked Land Rover gjerne ville tyngre inn i: Oljefeltene i midtøsten. Prosjektet ble ledet an en tidligere Esso-ansatt, Bill Harper, og med seg i utviklingsteamet fikk han Geof Miller, som hadde lang fartstid i Rover. Power Wagon ble ikke bare en inspirasjonskilde; siden det var den modellen man måtte konkurrere med, ble det tidlig bestemt at man måtte lage en bil som hadde minst samme lastevne. Inspisasjonskilde : Dodge Power Wagon Rover kjøpte ikke inn noen Dodge for å ha som "modell", men bilder og dokumentasjon på Power Wagon ble flittig konsultert. Lasteplanet skulle være minst 8 ganger 4 1/2 fot som på Dodgen, og man endte opp med en akselavstand 3" mer enn Dodgens 126". Selv om man da endte opp med en bil som i størrelse var ganske lik den som skulle kopieres, var nok ikke ytelsen like god. Dette skyldtes at Rover også i dette prosjektet hadde pålagt seg selv en begrensning som i ettertid kan virke ganske tåpelig : Motoren skulle velges blant Rovers egne motortyper. Den første prototypen ble bygget i 1959, og så ut som en forvokst, men ellers ganske ordinær seriebil. Førerhytten var standard, lyktene var plassert i grillen, og avstanden fra moder jord var ikke nevneverdig øket. De umiddelbart synlige forskjellene var store forskjermer og stort lasteplan. Under panseret skjulte der seg en rekkesekser, 3.0l utgaven fra Rover P5, og akslene var ikke vanlige Rover-aksler, men kraftigere Timken/Salisbury aksler. Girkasse og transferkasse var standard Land Rover type. Den første prototypen ble utstyrt med 9.00x16 dekk. Den skulle også kunne ustyres med 11.00x16 eller 16.00x16 hjul, men man hadde valgt å plassere akslene over fjærene, så der ble litt dårlig plass til så store hjul. En annen svakhet med dette eksemplaret var at fjærene var alt for stive. Prototyp 129/1 ble i 1961 brukt for testing av en 2.25l dieselmotor utsturt med turbolader utviklet av Rover Gas Turbines. Turboutgaven av 2.25l motoren ble skrinlagt, men om testmotoren ble stående i 129/1 eller om den originale 3.0l bensinmotoren ble satt på plass igjen, vites ikke. 129/1 ble overtatt av Rovers Experimental Department hvor den tjenestegjorde som taubil/redningsbil, til den ble hugget opp en gang på 1980-tallet. 129" Bonneted Control prototyp nr 1 I begynnelsen av 1960 forlot Bill Harper Rover, og Alan Jackson-Mee fra Rovers utviklingsavdeling ble ny leder for 129"-prosjektet. Under hans ledelse ble der våren 1960 bygget to nye prototyper. Disse hadde fjærene over akslene, slik at der ble bedre plass til store hjul. Dette førte selvfølgelig til at høydeforskjellen mellom differensial og girkasse ble større, og for å redusere vinklene i fremre mellomaksling, ble transferkassen flyttet bakover og litt nedover. Antakeligvis var også fjærene mykere enn de hadde vært på de første prototypen. 129" Bonneted Control prototyp nr 3 I tillegg til disse tekniske forbedringene, fikk disse prototypene et litt mer forseggjort frontparti, og frontlyktene ble flyttet ut i forskjermene. Disse prototypene hadde også et avtakbart panel i hjulbuene bak; når de var utstyrt med standard 9.00x16 eller "heavy duty" 10.00x16 dekk var panelet montert, men det ble fjernet hvis bilene skulle utstyres med "oil field specification" 16.00x16 dekk. 129/2 var i likhet med 129/1 høyrerattet, mens 129/3 var venstrerattet. 129" Bonneted Control prototyp nr 2 Heller ikke disse 2 prototypene var helt feilfrie. Girkassene gikk varme, selv etter at der ble montert kjølefinner på hovedgirkassen og transferkassen fikk øket oljekapasitet; og ved flere tilfeller måtte bilene kjøres hjem fra test-turer i 4. gir etter at resten av girkassen hadde takket for seg. Styringen på disse bilene var også litt spennende, i og med at den ikke bare hadde minimal selvoppretting, men også hadde en egen evne til å ende opp med full sving dersom man tok en sving i litt for stor fart. 129/2 ble sannsynligvis hugget opp, men 129/3 ble registrert med reg.nr. 2871UE 1. september 1960. 129/3 var antakeligvis med gruppen som reiste til Belgia da det belgiske forsvar skulle teste S2A forward control, og sammenligne den med MB Unimog. Senere ble 129/3 overtatt av Rovers Research Department. Denne bilen har overlevd, har blitt restaurert av Brian Bashall ved Dunsfold, før den etter en tid ved museet i Gaydon har endt opp i Solihull. 129" Bonneted Control prototyp nr 3 Den fjerde prototypen, 129/4, bygget i 1963, vet man ikke mye om nå; men den var antakeligvis utstyrt med reduksjonsnav på akslene. Dette kan tyde på at der med dette eksemplaret ble gjort forsøk på å løse girkasseproblemene. Karosseriet på denne var antakeligvis nokså likt nummer 2 og 3, men der er ingen kjente bilder av 129/4. Alle de fire første prototypene hadde også motorproblemer. Selv om 3.0l rekkesekseren fungerte bra i mindre og lettere biler, gikk den alt for lett varm i 129". Prototypene fikk montert flere varmeskjold for å forsøke å hindre alt for kraftig oppvarming av førerhuset, men selv om dette kanskje reduserte symptomene litt, fjernet det ikke selve problemet. På grunn av overopphetingsproblemene ble en planlagt test i Nord-Afrika kansellert; og det er nok lite sannsynlig at bilene med denne motoren hadde blitt særlig vellykket i midtøsten. 129" Bonneted Control prototyp nr 5 I 1963 ble der også bygget en 5. prototyp, med et helt annerledes karosseri. Denne ble bygget i et forsøk på å sikre seg en leveranse av lastebiler til forsvaret; selv om forsvarsdepartementet hadde gjort det klart at det var en forward control modell de ønsket seg. Denne prototypen ble ikke utstyrt med bensinmotor, men fikk en 2.5l 5-lagret turbodieselmotor. Utgangspunktet for denne motoren var en 2532cc multifuel motor utviklet med utgangspunkt i Rovers 2286cc diesel. Motoren ble utstyrt med turbo fra CAV, og den fikk også intercooler montert. Totalt sett en ganske avansert løsning den gang. Ytelsen på denne motoren ble oppgitt til 90bhp ved 4000 rpm, og 160 lb ft ved 1750 rpm. 2.5l turbodiesel på testbenken Under panseret på 129/5 To luftfilter, turbo, intercooler, og en 2.5l dieselmotor I tillegg til annen motor, hadde denne prototypen også en annen girkasse - en 4-trinns kasse helt uten synkronisering. Transferkassen var fremdeles standard LR, men den var utstyrt med både hydraulisk kraftuttak og en liten kompressor. Transferkasse med hydraulikkpumpe og kompressor Interiøret i prototyp nr 5 Ikke ulikt en vanlig seriebil Prototypen ble sendt til forsvarets testsenter i Chobham for utprøving, men selv om der var stor interesse for motorløsningen, ble modellen forkastet og 129/5 ble levert tilbake til Rover. Mange mente at modellen kunne ha konkurrert med både Power Wagon og Unimog, men uten noen store kontrakter i sikte, led 129"-prosjektet deretter en stille død omkring årsskiftet 1963/1964. 129/5 ble deretter gitt til CAV, som brukte den først til interntransport på sine fabrikkanlegg, og siden også til andre transportoppdrag. Bilen ble registrert, som FYF928C, i 1965. Så tidlig som i 1968 ble den "pensjonert", og sto i fare for å bli hugget opp da Brian Bashall kjøpte den. Den ble da satt i kjørbar stand igjen, lakkert bronze green, og gitt et halvmilitært utseende. Senere er den blitt restaurert og lakkert grå igjen. Denne bilen er fortsatt en del av Dunsfolds samling. Men vent nå litt, dette var bare 5 prototyper, ikke 6 som nevnt innledningsvis... Hvis prosjektet ble skrinlagt etter 5 prototyper, hvorfor ble der da bygget et eksemplar til ? Eller er der noen som ikke kan telle - mange andre kilder oppgir jo at der kun ble bygget 5 prototyper. Svaret er at 129/6 kun ble brukt som testbil for en multifuel-utgave av Perkins 6.354 motoren. Dermed kan man vel kanskje si at det egentlig ikke var en fullverdig prototyp, men bare noe som var til overs etter 129"-prosjektet. Men ettersom den ble gitt et serienummer i 129-serien må den nok kunne betraktes som en fullverdig 129" denne også. Dessverre finnes ingen bilder av denne bilen, og det kan nok antas at den ble hugget opp da motortestingen var fullført. ... og forklaringen på hvorfor Rover testet ut denne motortypen, kommer i en annen artikkel.
and Rover 129? "There must be a typo? There will probably be 109 or 127".
But no, that's no typo. Land Rover has, in fact, built 2 issues with 129 "akselavstand. The first was a modified version of the 127" craw cab, specifically tailored to avoid being taxed as a passenger car in the Netherlands. The other 129 "edition never get past the prototypstadiet - and it is these 6 prototypes we should take a closer look at her.
In the 1950s, Land Rover began to look at what could be done to increase the lastekapasiteten on cars. The most visible result was that akselavstanden on standardmodellen was raised to 86 "and that the LWB model 107" was launched, but this was not enough. More concept for cars with even greater lastekapasitet was tested around 1960 and worked Land Rover in parallel with 2 different solutions to increase lasteevnen.

One solution was to depend on the standard 109 "frame and as many as possible of its components from standardmodellen, but the increase lastekapasiteten by moving forward cabin - over and partly in front of the engine. This was the series 2A forward control, which is discussed in a previous article .

The second solution was 129 "bonneted control.


Land Rover 129 "
Bonneted Control prototype No. 5


Big Country Rovere - A serieprodusert and a prototype
110 "Series 2B Forward Control and 129" Bonneted Control prototype No. 5
The inspiration to the 129 "model came largely from the Dodge Power Wagon, a car that was much used in a market Land Rover would like to heavier into: The oil fields in the organizations.

The project was led an Esso, a former employee, Bill Harper, and with it the development came up with Geof Miller, who had long experience in the Rover.

Power Wagon was not just a inspirasjonskilde; since it was the model you have to compete with, it was decided that early man had to make a car that had at least the same lastevne.


Inspisasjonskilde: Dodge Power Wagon
Rover bought No Dodge to have as "a model", but the images and documentation of the Power Wagon was frequently consulted. Lasteplanet should be at least 8 times 4 1 / 2 feet as the Dodgers, and the man ended up with a akselavstand 3 "more than 126 Dodge." Although the man then ended up with a car that in size were quite similar to the one that should be copied, was probably not the performance as good. This was due to the Rover also in this project had imposed on itself a restriction that in retrospect may seem rather foolish: The engine was to be elected from among Rovers own engine.
The first prototype was built in 1959, and appeared as an overgrown, but otherwise quite ordinary seriebil. Førerhytten was standard, lamps were placed in the grille, and the distance from the mother earth was not a substantial increase. They immediately visible differences were large frontwing and large cargo. Under the bonnet hidden in which a rekkesekser, 3.0l release from the Rover P5, and axles were not common Rover axles, but more powerful Timken / Salisbury axles. Girkasse and transferkasse of standard Land Rover type.
The first prototype was equipped with 9.00x16 tires. It should also be able to unruly with 11.00x16 or 16.00x16 wheels, but they had chosen to place the shafts of feathers, so there was some ill-room for such large wheels. Another weakness of this copy was that the feathers were all too stiff.
Prototype 129 / 1 was in 1961 used for testing a 2.25l with turbo-charged diesel utsturt developed by Rover Gas Turbines. Turboutgaven of 2.25l engine was skrinlagt, but if testmotoren was standing in 129 / 1 or whether the original 3.0l bensinmotoren was put in place again, do not know.
129 / 1 was taken over by Rovers Experimental Department in which it served as taubil / redningsbil, to which it was carved up again in the 1980s.


129 "Bonneted Control prototype No. 1
At the beginning of 1960 left the Bill Harper Rover, and Alan Jackson-Mee from Rovers engineering in the new leader of the 129 "project. Under his leadership was where the spring of 1960 built two new prototypes. They had feathers of axles, so that there was a better place to large wheels. As a result, of course, that the drop between the differential and gear-box was needed, and to reduce the angles in front mellomaksling, was transferkassen moved backwards and a little bit down. Antakeligvis feathers were also softer than they had been on the first prototype.


129 "Bonneted Control prototype No. 3
In addition to these technical improvements, these prototypes had a little more forseggjort frontal, and the headlights were moved out into the frontwing. These prototypes also had a removable panel in hjulbuene behind, when they were equipped with the standard 9.00x16 or "heavy duty" 10.00x16 deck panel was assembled, but it was removed if the cars were fitted with "oil field specification" 16.00x16 deck. 129 / 2 was similar to the 129 / 1 høyrerattet, while 129 / 3 was venstrerattet.


129 "Bonneted Control prototype No. 2
Neither of these 2 prototypes were completely flawless. Girkassene was hot, even after that there was mounted kjølefinner on hovedgirkassen and transferkassen had increased oljekapasitet; and in several cases where cars had to run home from the test tours in 4. provides for the rest of the gear-box had thanks to him. Fordwyaeth on these cars was also a little exciting, in that it not only had minimal selvoppretting, but also had a special ability to end up in full swing if you took a turn in a little too great speed.
129 / 2 was probably carved up, but 129 / 3 were registered with reg.nr. 2871UE 1. september 1960. 129 / 3 was probably the group that traveled to Belgium as the Belgian defence was to test the S2A forward control, and compare it with MB Unimog. Later, was 129 / 3 over by Rovers Research Department. This car has survived, has been restored by Brian Bashall at Dunsfold, before it for a time at the museum in Gaydon have ended up in Solihull.


129 "Bonneted Control prototype No. 3
The fourth prototype, 129 / 4, built in 1963, they do not know much about now, but it was probably equipped with reduksjonsnav on axles. This may indicate that where with this copy was made to resolve girkasseproblemene. Karosseriet to this was probably quite similar numbers 2 and 3, but there are no known photos of 129 / 4.
All the first four prototypes had also motorproblemer. Although 3.0l rekkesekseren worked well in smaller and lighter cars, it was all too easy warm in 129. "Prototype had mounted several varmeskjold in an attempt to prevent all too powerful heat the cabin, but even if this may reduce the symptoms a little, removed it is not the issue itself. Because of overopphetingsproblemene was a scheduled test in North Africa cancelled, and there are enough very likely that cars with this engine had been particularly successful in organizations.


129 "Bonneted Control prototype No. 5
In 1963 there was also built a 5. prototype, with a very different body. This was built in an attempt to secure a supply of trucks to the defense; even if the defence ministry had made it clear that it was a forward control model they wanted them.

This prototype was not equipped with bensinmotor, but had a 2.5l 5-saved turbodieselmotor. The starting point for this engine was a 2532cc multifuel engine developed on the basis of Rovers 2286cc diesel. The engine was equipped with a turbo from CAV, and it also had the intercooler mounted. In total, a fairly advanced solution at the time. The output of this engine was provided to 90bhp at 4000 rpm and 160 lb ft at 1750 rpm.


2.5l turbodiesel on the test bench


Under the bonnet on 129 / 5
Two air filter, turbo, intercooler, and a 2.5l diesel,
In addition to any other engine, had this prototype also another gear-box - a 4-stage bin-free synchronization. Transferkassen was still the standard LR, but it was equipped with both hydraulic power and a small compressor.


Transferkasse with hydraulic and compressor



The interior of the prototype No. 5
Not unlike a normal seriebil
Prototype was sent to the defence Test in Chobham for testing, but even if there were a lot of interest in motorløsningen, the model was discarded and 129 / 5 came back to the Rover.
Many believed that the play could have competed with both the Power Wagon and Unimog, but without any major contracts in view, led 129 "project, then a silent death around the turn of the year 1963/1964. 129 / 5 was then given to CAV, who spent the first to interntransport in their factories, and since also to other transportoppdrag. The car was registered, which FYF928C, in 1965. As early as 1968, the "retired", and stood in danger of being carved up when Brian Bashall bought it. The was then put into roadworthy again, varnished bronze green, and made a halvmilitært appearance. Later, it has become restored and varnished grey again. This car is still a part of Dunsfold collection.
But now, wait a little, this was only 5 prototypes, not 6 as mentioned introduction ... If the project was skrinlagt after 5 prototypes, why was there then built a copy for? Or is there anyone who can not count - many other sources provide the more that it was built only 5 prototypes.
The answer is that the 129 / 6 was only used as testbil for a multifuel-edition of 6,354 Perkins engine. Thus, one can well may say that it really was not a full prototype, but only something that was left after the 129 "project. But since it was given a serial number 129-series, it must be considered enough as a full 129" this also. Unfortunately, there no pictures of this car, and it can probably assumed that it was carved up when motortestingen was completed.

[אריק זמר]

gp1
איך לקרוא לו ? קרקל או Plasan Sand Cat.

[gp1]

http://www.armyrecognition.com/moyen...res_Israel.htm